Celsius 411

[MidwestSwing]

Anyone heard of this movie? Looks pretty interesting, supposed to "expose the lies of Fahrenheit 911". I think it's pretty safe to say that almost all of Fahrenheit 911 was fictional, so this will most likely be the same.

[Mycall]

^ [email protected] all the Anti-Moore movies coming out. Did you even see F 9/11?

The commission confirmed the key facts in the movie....fuck it, it's not worth argueing over anymore.

[StereoType]

Why does everyone ask "Did you see Farenhiet 9/11" to everyone. I saw it it sucked, it was stupid and a waste of 7 bucks. Dont see it go see Gigli or something.

Anyway, to be "Fair and Balanced" everyone who saw F 9/11 should also see Celcius 4111, Ive only seen bits of Celcius but it looks good.

MyCall, what Commission are you talking about?

[xemceekahnx]

^the 9/11

[Noyz3001]

Why does everyone ask "Did you see Farenhiet 9/11" to everyone. I saw it it sucked, it was stupid and a waste of 7 bucks. Dont see it go see Gigli or something.

Anyway, to be "Fair and Balanced" everyone who saw F 9/11 should also see Celcius 4111, Ive only seen bits of Celcius but it looks good.

MyCall, what Commission are you talking about?

FerenHYPE 911 is good too. Shows the full footage of what Moore had edited. Shows in documentation the facts. Let's people who were wrongly portrayed in Moore's film speak out.

[xemceekahnx]

FerenHYPE 911 is good too. Shows the full footage of what Moore had edited. Shows in documentation the facts. Let's people who were wrongly portrayed in Moore's film speak out.

I don't get why u republicans don't beleive that there's no facts in michael moores movie

[The Un-American]

Someone tell me KEY POINTS as to why F9/11 is false. Please don't respond with "It's all a lie" because that doesn't tell us anything.

Either that or post a link to one of these films that is more focused on tarnishing Moore's image (like he needs the help) than it is on explaining the facts.

[MidwestSwing]

9-11 commission was a waste of time, doesn't make us safer. THere have been no terrorist attacks for over 3 years and as long as Bush is in office they won't be AS LIKELY to happen.

[Illphrenic]

i agree, someone please point out all the "lies" in F/11

[PlasticSturgeon]

i agree, someone please point out all the "lies" in F/11

Lie: Bush lied to the american people when he said saddam had weapons of mass destruction.

Truth:Bush received bad info from the C.I.A. and even your beloved John Kerry said Saddam had WMD's.Though non were found its obvious Saddam was a "weapon of mass destruction" himself therfore no lie.

[Illphrenic]

Lie: Bush lied to the american people when he said saddam had weapons of mass destruction.

Truth:Bush received bad info from the C.I.A. and even your beloved John Kerry said Saddam had WMD's.Though non were found its obvious Saddam was a "weapon of mass destruction" himself therfore no lie.

lol come on

reaching.....

[MidwestSwing]

he also got information from blair and putin who both said iraq had wmd

[Mycall]

9/11 Commission Report Confirms Key Fahrenheit 9/11 Facts

The September 11 Commission's 567-page final report has confirmed key facts presented in Fahrenheit 9/11 . Here are passages from the film, followed by the 9/11 Commission's findings:



I. Ashcroft Briefing

Fahrenheit 9/11: “One of [John Ashcroft's] first acts as Attorney General was to tell acting FBI director Thomas Pickard that he didn't want to hear anything more about terrorist threats.”

Commission Report, p. 265: Pickard told the Commission that after two briefings on the terror threat situation (in May and early July), “Ashcroft told him that he did not want to hear about the threats anymore.”

The Report also states that Ashcroft denies this allegation and that Pickard told Ashcroft that “he could not assure Ashcroft that there would be no attacks in the United States, although the reports of threats were related to overseas targets. Ashcroft said he therefore assumed the FBI was doing what it needed to do. He acknowledged that in retrospect, this was a dangerous assumption. He did not ask the FBI what it was doing in response to the threats and did not task it to take any specific action. He also did not direct the INS, then still part of the Department of Justice, to take any specific action. In sum, the domestic agencies never mobilized in response to the threat. They did not have direction, and did not have a plan to institute.”



II. Bush in Florida Classroom on the morning of September 11, 2001

Fahrenheit 9/11: "As the attack took place, Mr. Bush was on his way to an elementary school in Florida. When informed of the first plane hitting the World Trade Center, where terrorists had struck just 8 years prior, Mr. Bush decided to go ahead with his photo opportunity. When the second plane hit the tower, his chief of staff entered the classroom and told Mr. Bush the nation is under attack. Not knowing what to do, with no one telling him what to do, and no Secret Service rushing in to take him to safety, Mr. Bush just sat there and continued to read My Pet Goat with the children. Nearly seven minutes passed with nobody doing anything."

Commission Report, p 35: “White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card told us he was standing with the President outside the classroom when Senior Advisor to the President Karl Rove first informed them that a small, twin-engine plane had crashed into the World Trade Center. The President's reaction was that the incident must have been caused by pilot error. At 8:55, before entering the classroom, the President spoke to National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, who was at the White House. She recalled first telling the President it was a twin-engine aircraft—and then a commercial aircraft—that had struck the World Trade Center, adding ‘that's all we know right now, Mr. President.'”

Commission Report, pp. 38-39: “The President was seated in a classroom when, at 9:05, Andrew Card whispered to him: ‘A second plane hit the second tower. America is under attack…' The President remained in the classroom for another five to seven minutes, while the children continued reading.”



III. Bush Failure to Meet with Head of Counterrorism in 2001

Fahrenheit 9/11: “As Bush sat in that Florida classroom, was he wondering if maybe he should have shown up to work more often? Should he have held at least one meeting since taking office to discuss the threat of terrorism with his head of counterterrorism [Richard Clarke]?"

Commission Report, p 201: “Within the first few days after Bush's inauguration, Clarke approached Rice in an effort to get her—and the new President—to give terrorism very high priority and to act on the agenda that he had pushed during the last few months of the previous administration. After Rice requested that all senior staff identify desirable major policy reviews or initiatives, Clarke submitted an elaborate memorandum on January 25, 2001. He attached to it his 1998 Delenda Plan and the December 2000 strategy paper. ‘We urgently need...a Principals level review on the al Qida network,' Clarke wrote. The national security advisor did not respond directly to Clarke's memorandum. No Principals Committee meeting on al Qaeda was held until September 4, 2001 (although the Principals Committee met frequently on other subjects, such as the Middle East peace process, Russia, and the Persian Gulf).”



IV. Bush Did Not React to Security Briefing

Fahrenheit 9/11: "Perhaps [President Bush] just should have read the security briefing that was given to him on August 6th, 2001, which said that Osama Bin Laden was planning to attack America by hijacking airplanes. But maybe he wasn't worried about the terrorist threat because the title of the report was too vague.

Commission Report, pp. 260-262: At the time, Bush says he considered the CIA's August 6th Presidential Daily Briefing entitled “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.” to be “historical in nature,” although the “two CIA analysts involved in preparing this briefing article believed it represented an opportunity to communicate their view that the threat of a Bin Ladin attack in the United States remained both current and serious ” (emphasis added). Bush “did not recall discussing the August 6 report with the Attorney General or whether Rice had done so… The following day's SEIB repeated the title of this PDB… Late in the month, a foreign service reported that Abu Zubaydah was considering mounting terrorist attacks in the United States… We have found no indication of any further discussion before September 11 among the President and his top advisors of the possibility of a threat of an al Qaeda attack in the United States… [CIA director] Tenet does not recall any discussions with the President of the domestic threat” between August 17 when Tenet visited Bush in Crawford, and September 10.



V. The Timing of the Saudi Flights

Fahrenheit 9/11 : “At least six private jets and nearly two dozen commercial planes carried the Saudis and the bin Ladens out of the U.S. after September 13th. In all, 142 Saudis, including 24 members of the bin Laden family, were allowed to leave the country.”

Commission Report, p. 556, n. 25: “[A]fter the airspace reopened, nine chartered flights with 160 people, mostly Saudi nationals, departed from the United States between September 14 and 24.”



VI. FBI Interviews of Saudis and Bin Ladens Who Left

Fahrenheit 9/11: The FBI conducted “a little interview, check[ed] the passport.”

Confirmed, Commission Report at p. 557, n. 28: “The Bin Ladin flight and other flights we examined were screened in accordance with policies set by FBI headquarters and coordinated through working-level interagency process…Although most of the passengers were not interviewed, 22 of the 26 on the Bin Ladin flight were interviewed by the FBI…Two of the passengers on this flight had been the subjects of preliminary investigations by the FBI, but both their cases had been closed, in 1999 and March 2001, respectively, because the FBI had uncovered no derogatory information on either person linking them to terrorist activity.”


http://michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911facts/

[StereoType]

LIE'S IN FARENHIET 9/11 (ill name a few to get the ball Rolling. These ones are just about Taliban and Bin Laden)

1. Pipeline in Afghanistan

CLAIM: Moore states that the Taliban visited Texas in 1998 while Bush was governor, over a possible pipeline deal with Unocal to run through Afghanistan.

TRUTH: The Taliban reps never actually met with Bush, and the deal was supported by the Clinton Administration. The deal went Bust.

2. Moore attacks Bush on waiting too long to get Bin Laden.

CLAIM: Moore says in his movie that Bin Laden got a 2 month head start to run from the US. look what Moore said just three days after 9/11...

TRUTH: Michael Moore (September 14, 2001) , "Declare war?" War against whom? One guy in the desert whom we can never seem to find? Are our leaders telling us that the most powerful country on earth cannot dispose of one sick evil fuck-wad of a guy? Because if that is what you are telling us, then we are truly screwed.

But do not declare war and massacre more innocents. After bin Laden's previous act of terror, our last elected president went and bombed what he said was "bin Laden's camp" in Afghanistan -- but instead just killed civilians."

So he disagreed with Clinton and Bush to try and bomb Bin Ladens terrorist camps. But then fires right back and said Bush should of acted sonner. Shows you what he knows.

3. Bush Administration visit with Taliban

CLAIM: Moore trys to show Bush sympathetic with Taliban. He shows a meeting between the Bush Admin and Taliban members in March, 2001. He says the Bush administration welcomed Sayed Hashemi (Taliban official who came), saying our goal was to help improve relationship with the Taliban.

TRUTH: The visit by the Taliban spokesman was hardly "Welcoming." On the DAY of the visit State Department spokesman Richard Boucher said "We don’t recognize any government in Afghanistan," because of them not cooperating with the handover of Osama Bin Laden.

[Illphrenic]

wow you were right this movie is jam packed with lies