Factual Back Up For Fahrenheit 9/11

[Bely]

yes,this documentary is very old but i still hate it when neocons go like,that documentary contains all lies,when it doesn't! go check this out:

http://www.michaelmoore.com/books-fi...ndex.php?id=16

[StereoType]

The Michael Moore movie is almost all either wrong or very misleading. The only thing the movie pointed out correctly was the unemployment rate in Flynt (which isn't even is home town as he claims in his documentary).

[Kegz]

^^ What is factually wrong then, other than the rosy picture he painted of pre-war Iraq? Just point'em out 2 me.

[Cryptic]

It's not what's factually wrong...it's the fact that he didn't report on the real hardcore 9/11 issues like the unusual activies in the stock market before 9/11 (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/...in311834.shtml), NORAD standing down, warnings such as John Craft stopping flying 3 months before 9/11 due to a "threat assessment" by the FBI... this was reported by CBS and Michael Moore wouldn't get near it... he would rather spend some time in getting Britney Spears opinion on the war and videos of Paul Wolfowitz spitting into his hand and rubbing his hair... as if that has anything to do with "exposing Bush."

If you want a real documentary, watch Martial Law 911

http://www.ka0s.com/alex.htm -- it's all the way on top

[gdillinjah]

The Michael Moore movie is almost all either wrong or very misleading. The only thing the movie pointed out correctly was the unemployment rate in Flynt (which isn't even is home town as he claims in his documentary).

You cannot make a statement like that and then not follow it up with proof. If Michael Moore was wrong on ANY facts stated in the movie, the MEDIA would have had a field day with those facts and Moore would have lost his Cannes and People's Choice Awards for the movie. Or at least made headlines by opposers to a documentary that was actually a fictional story. He was right about Bush's ties to the Saudi Royals, he was right about the Bush tie to weaponsmakers, he was right about the chartered flights for Saudi Royals, he was right about the Bush ties to oil, he was right about EVEYTHING!! What does it take to get it through peoples heads? How many more fuck ups need to happen? Look, its the beginning of hurricane season, you can oust Bush and put a real man into office before the next big one hits if you all act fast enough. That decision alone will save thousands of lives. Get real, and forget about protecting Bush, he is a failure on every level. And wheter he is a decent president or not is'nt even a viable debate any more, 5 years of nothing but blunders is record enough that he cannot pull out a decent presidency with the time left. He is a failure, not Moore. Moore still has his awards, Bush loses more respect from people everyday. Thats all the proof I need.

[Bely]

You cannot make a statement like that and then not follow it up with proof. If Michael Moore was wrong on ANY facts stated in the movie, the MEDIA would have had a field day with those facts and Moore would have lost his Cannes and People's Choice Awards for the movie. Or at least made headlines by opposers to a documentary that was actually a fictional story. He was right about Bush's ties to the Saudi Royals, he was right about the Bush tie to weaponsmakers, he was right about the chartered flights for Saudi Royals, he was right about the Bush ties to oil, he was right about EVEYTHING!! What does it take to get it through peoples heads? How many more fuck ups need to happen? Look, its the beginning of hurricane season, you can oust Bush and put a real man into office before the next big one hits if you all act fast enough. That decision alone will save thousands of lives. Get real, and forget about protecting Bush, he is a failure on every level. And wheter he is a decent president or not is'nt even a viable debate any more, 5 years of nothing but blunders is record enough that he cannot pull out a decent presidency with the time left. He is a failure, not Moore. Moore still has his awards, Bush loses more respect from people everyday. Thats all the proof I need.

EXACTLY! if michael was wrong about even about one small detail in that documentary or in his books,he would've gotten sued by alot of republicans,so everything he says is basically true,even in bowling for columbine when he got that gun in a bank (alot of ppl say it was staged) it wasn't staged,ITS A FACT! i wonder why the conservatives don't say something in this thread,maybe they jus don't wanna hear the truth?

[reservoirGod]

You cannot make a statement like that and then not follow it up with proof. If Michael Moore was wrong on ANY facts stated in the movie, the MEDIA would have had a field day with those facts and Moore would have lost his Cannes and People's Choice Awards for the movie. Or at least made headlines by opposers to a documentary that was actually a fictional story. He was right about Bush's ties to the Saudi Royals, he was right about the Bush tie to weaponsmakers, he was right about the chartered flights for Saudi Royals, he was right about the Bush ties to oil, he was right about EVEYTHING!! What does it take to get it through peoples heads? How many more fuck ups need to happen? Look, its the beginning of hurricane season, you can oust Bush and put a real man into office before the next big one hits if you all act fast enough. That decision alone will save thousands of lives. Get real, and forget about protecting Bush, he is a failure on every level. And wheter he is a decent president or not is'nt even a viable debate any more, 5 years of nothing but blunders is record enough that he cannot pull out a decent presidency with the time left. He is a failure, not Moore. Moore still has his awards, Bush loses more respect from people everyday. Thats all the proof I need.

he is 100% right.
we need a REAL leader.

[StereoType]

After Moore's movi came out, Bush's poll numbers went up and Kerry's went down. And Bush won the 2004 election by 4 million votes. Moore's movie was a failure, it only put millions in to his pockets. But ok, let me point out a few things wrong about Michael Moore's movie...

1. Saudi Flights out of U.S. after 9/11

Moore claims in the movie that Saudi's (including 24 members of the Bin Laden family) were aloud to be flown out of the United States on Sep 13 (before the ban on flying was lifted). However, the 9/11 Commission confirms that RICHARD CLARKE was the highest ranking official to aprove the flights (somebody Moore uses alot for factual back-up during the movie). Also, the members of the Bin Laden family did not leave the United States until almost 2 weeks later, and they were all screened by the FBI. The 9/11 Commission confirms that none of those people had any recent connection with Osama Bin Laden.

2. Bush's and Saudi's

Bush show's many clips of both George Bush sr. and George W. Bush meeting with Prince Bandar and Saudi officials. Somehow, footage of President Clinton meeting with King Fahd and President Carter (who Michael Moore sat next to the 2004 DNC) meeting with the Bin Ladens in 2000 was left out of his movie. He shows only Republican Presidents meeting with Saudi's, leaving out that Democrats have done the exact same thing.

3. Special Protection for Saudi Embassy...

Moore: "Even though we were nowhere near the White House, for some reason the Secret Service had shown up to ask us what we were doing standing across the street from the Saudi embassy"

Officer: "That’s fine. Just wanted to get some information on what was going on."

Moore: "Yeah yeah yeah, I didn’t realize the Secret Service guards foreign embassies."

Officer: "Uh, not usually, no sir."

Moore is trying to say that somehow the Saudi's are getting special attention from the Secret Service. But in fact, according to the Secret Services website...

"Uniformed Division officers provide protection for the White House Complex, the Vice-President's residence, the Main Treasury Building and Annex, and foreign diplomatic missions and embassies in the Washington, DC area."

http://www.secretservice.gov/opportunities_ud.shtml

Anybody want to dispute these points I made here? This is just on stuff about the Saudi's, I can keep going if you like.

[reservoirGod]

yeah, keep going you totaly convinced me that Bush doesn't have any special "conection" to the Saudi Royals!
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/...in691413.shtml

now I'm off to buy some $3 a gallon gas!!

[Kegz]

1. Saudi Flights out of U.S. after 9/11

Moore claims in the movie that Saudi's (including 24 members of the Bin Laden family) were aloud to be flown out of the United States on Sep 13 (before the ban on flying was lifted). However, the 9/11 Commission confirms that RICHARD CLARKE was the highest ranking official to aprove the flights (somebody Moore uses alot for factual back-up during the movie). Also, the members of the Bin Laden family did not leave the United States until almost 2 weeks later, and they were all screened by the FBI. The 9/11 Commission confirms that none of those people had any recent connection with Osama Bin Laden.

I agree that his point was retarded (so what if they were allowed to leave?), but you didnt counter anything. What he said was true, they were allowed to leave.

2. Bush's and Saudi's

Bush show's many clips of both George Bush sr. and George W. Bush meeting with Prince Bandar and Saudi officials. Somehow, footage of President Clinton meeting with King Fahd and President Carter (who Michael Moore sat next to the 2004 DNC) meeting with the Bin Ladens in 2000 was left out of his movie. He shows only Republican Presidents meeting with Saudi's, leaving out that Democrats have done the exact same thing.

wtf? this refutes nothing. Fact is they have very close ties, Moore didnt say "only Republicans have close ties to the SAudis".. where is the lie? You claimed lies. Your only pointing out some omissions he might have made.

3. Special Protection for Saudi Embassy...

Moore: "Even though we were nowhere near the White House, for some reason the Secret Service had shown up to ask us what we were doing standing across the street from the Saudi embassy"

Officer: "That’s fine. Just wanted to get some information on what was going on."

Moore: "Yeah yeah yeah, I didn’t realize the Secret Service guards foreign embassies."

Officer: "Uh, not usually, no sir."

Moore is trying to say that somehow the Saudi's are getting special attention from the Secret Service. But in fact, according to the Secret Services website...

"Uniformed Division officers provide protection for the White House Complex, the Vice-President's residence, the Main Treasury Building and Annex, and foreign diplomatic missions and embassies in the Washington, DC area."

Point taken. Although the secret service agent that Moore talked to obviously didnt know shit when he said "uhh no, not usually".

Look, I'm not saying it was a good documentary. Realistically, this movie nor Bowling for Columbine should qualify as documentaries because they present a clear opinion, they are not neutral. Moore himself said that his movies are not neutral, he has an opinion and he presents it. People should take it as such; as an opinion based upon some facts.

[Bely]

Look, I'm not saying it was a good documentary. Realistically, this movie nor Bowling for Columbine should qualify as documentaries because they present a clear opinion, they are not neutral. Moore himself said that his movies are not neutral, he has an opinion and he presents it. People should take it as such; as an opinion based upon some facts.

i think that's a good way to describe the documentary and i wanna stress BASED UPON FACTS! somehow those republicans simply can not believe the facts in fahrenheit 9/11

[StereoType]

I agree that his point was retarded (so what if they were allowed to leave?), but you didnt counter anything. What he said was true, they were allowed to leave.

This point in the movie is very misleading. True, nothing he said on this part was a lie (exept Bin Laden's leaving on Sep 13, that was a flat lie), but many things are misleading. He makes no attempts to say that Richard Clarke approved the flights, or that the Bin Laden's were screened by the FBI, or that Osama Bin Laden has no recent connections with his 51 siblings.

this refutes nothing. Fact is they have very close ties, Moore didnt say "only Republicans have close ties to the SAudis".. where is the lie? You claimed lies. Your only pointing out some omissions he might have made.

I claimed that almost every point in the movie was either a lie or very misleading. This was a point that is misleading. Personally, I don't believe our government should have such close relationships with country's like Saudi Arabia and China who are not Democratic. Yet both political party's do it, and Moore only shows one side of the picture.

Point taken. Although the secret service agent that Moore talked to obviously didnt know shit when he said "uhh no, not usually".

Look, I'm not saying it was a good documentary. Realistically, this movie nor Bowling for Columbine should qualify as documentaries because they present a clear opinion, they are not neutral. Moore himself said that his movies are not neutral, he has an opinion and he presents it. People should take it as such; as an opinion based upon some facts.

The agent probably felt under pressure not to say something stupid with camera's in his face. Fact is, this statement in the movie is completely wrong.

Moore trys to present his movie as fact, and off camera he states that Farenhiet 9/11 is his opinion. There is no disclaimer before the opening credits that the movie is only opinion. In a "Documentary," you should try to provide both sides of the argument. I believe more did this somewhat in Bowling For Columbian, but in 9/11 it was completely biased to one side.

[Bely]

This point in the movie is very misleading. True, nothing he said on this part was a lie (exept Bin Laden's leaving on Sep 13, that was a flat lie), but many things are misleading. He makes no attempts to say that Richard Clarke approved the flights, or that the Bin Laden's were screened by the FBI, or that Osama Bin Laden has no recent connections with his 51 siblings.



I claimed that almost every point in the movie was either a lie or very misleading. This was a point that is misleading. Personally, I don't believe our government should have such close relationships with country's like Saudi Arabia and China who are not Democratic. Yet both political party's do it, and Moore only shows one side of the picture.






The agent probably felt under pressure not to say something stupid with camera's in his face. Fact is, this statement in the movie is completely wrong.

Moore trys to present his movie as fact, and off camera he states that Farenhiet 9/11 is his opinion. There is no disclaimer before the opening credits that the movie is only opinion. In a "Documentary," you should try to provide both sides of the argument. I believe more did this somewhat in Bowling For Columbian, but in 9/11 it was completely biased to one side.

a documentary doesn't always show both sides of the story,a documentary is about facts,and fahrenheit 9/11 is built on facts. And ur wrong about the bin ladens not having any connections to bin laden himself,michael wrote in his book "dude where is my country" about the connections,how the bin lades were at a wedding where osama was too and so on,so yes there is a connection and also,yes,there was some kind of fbi screening,it was about asking them normal questions like "did you leave ur bags alone at any time?" stuff like that,so no real screening,oh and also,if you think that every point made in that movie was a lie or michael trying to mislead us,well show me evidence,show me that he was lying. Cuz the republicans sure didn't show america that he was lying by suing michael.

[reservoirGod]

After Moore's movi came out, Bush's poll numbers went up and Kerry's went down. And Bush won the 2004 election by 4 million votes. Moore's movie was a failure, it only put millions in to his pockets. But ok, let me point out a few things wrong about Michael Moore's movie...

1. Saudi Flights out of U.S. after 9/11

Moore claims in the movie that Saudi's (including 24 members of the Bin Laden family) were aloud to be flown out of the United States on Sep 13 (before the ban on flying was lifted). However, the 9/11 Commission confirms that RICHARD CLARKE was the highest ranking official to aprove the flights (somebody Moore uses alot for factual back-up during the movie). Also, the members of the Bin Laden family did not leave the United States until almost 2 weeks later, and they were all screened by the FBI. The 9/11 Commission confirms that none of those people had any recent connection with Osama Bin Laden.

2. Bush's and Saudi's

Bush show's many clips of both George Bush sr. and George W. Bush meeting with Prince Bandar and Saudi officials. Somehow, footage of President Clinton meeting with King Fahd and President Carter (who Michael Moore sat next to the 2004 DNC) meeting with the Bin Ladens in 2000 was left out of his movie. He shows only Republican Presidents meeting with Saudi's, leaving out that Democrats have done the exact same thing.

3. Special Protection for Saudi Embassy...

Moore: "Even though we were nowhere near the White House, for some reason the Secret Service had shown up to ask us what we were doing standing across the street from the Saudi embassy"

Officer: "That’s fine. Just wanted to get some information on what was going on."

Moore: "Yeah yeah yeah, I didn’t realize the Secret Service guards foreign embassies."

Officer: "Uh, not usually, no sir."

Moore is trying to say that somehow the Saudi's are getting special attention from the Secret Service. But in fact, according to the Secret Services website...

"Uniformed Division officers provide protection for the White House Complex, the Vice-President's residence, the Main Treasury Building and Annex, and foreign diplomatic missions and embassies in the Washington, DC area."

http://www.secretservice.gov/opportunities_ud.shtml

Anybody want to dispute these points I made here? This is just on stuff about the Saudi's, I can keep going if you like.

I think the facts that after we were attact by Saudi Arabia on 9/11, Bush called the hijackers "Evil doer's" (made up word) instead of "Saudis" then did everything he could to impede the 9/11 commision..... then classified the 28 pages that prove just how involved the Saudi goverment was (completely), proves a strong connection to the Saudi Royals.