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Biodiesel, ethanol, hybrids... whatever happened to the Toyota RAV4 EV?

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  • Biodiesel, ethanol, hybrids... whatever happened to the Toyota RAV4 EV?

    You know what's funny... with all this talk about gas prices and shortages and alternatives like Biodiesel and Ethanol... I totaly forgot Toyota made Gas powered cars obsolete a couple of years ago... then deicided to quit making Electric (completly electric not hybrid) cars for some unknown reason.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV
    the last vet.before everyone got vetted
    Originally posted by MarshallArts
    Who's got you quoted in their sigs? Are they as equally worthy as those that have sigged me? I just can't imagine it.

  • #2
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Ranger_EV

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...ctric_vehicles

    you could get solar panels to charge the batteries... and drive to work everyday without paying a continuing cost.
    Last edited by reservoirGod; 04-26-2006, 10:15 AM.
    the last vet.before everyone got vetted
    Originally posted by MarshallArts
    Who's got you quoted in their sigs? Are they as equally worthy as those that have sigged me? I just can't imagine it.

    Comment


    • #3
      Chevy made an S-10EV, too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_S10_EV


      and looks like chysler had the first one, a minivan from '93 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_TEVan

      Honda had one before they started working on the insight http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_EV_Plus


















      Patty’s 2002 Toyota RAV4 EV
      Patricia Lakinsmith

      Yes, you can drive an earth-friendly, electric car to work if you live in the mountains, and you don’t even need to be an electrician to do it. With a range of over 100 miles per charge, this car has no problem tackling my forty-mile round-trip Highway 17 commute, even with lunchtime errands or after work trips. The majority of our driving needs revolve around getting to work and back every day. Most commutes are less than forty miles round-trip, so the RAV4 EV (Electric Vehicle) can fit seamlessly into your daily life.

      The clean, quiet power of this car is a joy. Practical, compact SUV styling makes it a functional choice for the environmentally conscious driver.

      After about four years of use in the rental and government vehicle fleets, the electric Toyota RAV4 is available for sale to the public. This is part of the company’s program to comply with the California Air Resources Board (CARB) mandate. By 2003, ten percent of all new vehicles sold in California will be required to meet low emissions standards, with two percent qualified as zero emission vehicles.
      On a historical note, while the appearance and capabilities of this particular car are revolutionary, electric vehicles themselves are not new. More than 8000 vehicles registered in America in 1900 were electric.1 These were known as “city” vehicles, and were considered to be less complicated and cleaner than their young internal combustion engine cousins.

      The RAV4 is a pure electric vehicle, not a hybrid. There are no emissions (not even a tailpipe), no maintenance, and you “fill up” at night by plugging it into a home charging station that comes with the car. Hybrids contain a gasoline engine and an electric motor. Though they are more efficient than pure gas-powered cars, hybrids still emit pollutants into the air. The RAV4 EV has an electric motor only.

      On a full charge you can run about 117 miles, depending on the terrain. Some electric vehicle owners make longer trips by planning stops at public charging stations found in shopping centers and airport parking garages.

      The the first thing I addressed in my test drive was how the car would perform on Highway 17. I planned to use the car for commuting to work. I took a colleague and the salesperson (a rather large guy). We were easily able to climb all the way to Summit Road, passing vehicles along the way. Furthermore, you can make power when going downhill, using the car’s regenerative braking system. I’d like to see a gas-powered car do that.

      The top advertised speed is 78 mph. It’s plenty fast for commuting in this area. My husband actually calls it “peppy.”

      The dashboard is like a “regular car” and the onboard amenities are similar. You’ll find controls for air conditioning and heat, CD/AM/FM, power mirrors, windows and door locks, heated seats, timed charge, pre-cool or pre-heat, anti-lock brakes and dual front airbags. The state of charge meter shows you how much charge is left in the battery pack. It replaces the gas gauge. An additional gauge shows the momentary draw on the battery.

      Several tiers of warnings tell you when you’re running low on battery power.

      Unlike some electric vehicles, this car has room for five passengers, plus cargo space in the back. My dog especially likes the cargo area for trips to the beach.

      The RAV4 EV has 24 factory sealed 12-volt rechargeable nickel metal hydride batteries (recyclable) used to propel the car and an additional 12 -volt lead acid battery for accessories (heating, air conditioning, CD player and radio, etc.). The batteries should last 100,000 miles.

      Charging is relatively inexpensive. You charge it at night, at home, when the electric rates are at their cheapest, around 5 to 8 cents per kwh. It takes six to seven hours to charge it fully. You can drive up to 117 miles on one charge. The cost to drive it is 3 to 3.5 cents per mile, compared with some SUVs, which can cost as much as 8 or 9 cents per mile.

      The RAV4 has a sale price of approximately $42,000, but after rebates and tax credits, the actual cost is about $30,000. This includes the home charging station, which you pay to have installed. Incentives are also available for employers who have EV charging installed at the workplace. In addition, Senate Bill 1782 mandates that the registration fees collected by the Department of Motor Vehicles will be based on a more affordable equivalent gas-powered car, not on the temporarily high cost of this new technology.

      If you buy the vehicle (as opposed to leasing it) you can get an additional $3000 tax credit. Here’s another plus. You can drive a zero emissions vehicle alone in the carpool lane. Other benefits include free public charging at places like Costco and Fry’s and free parking in many municipalities. There is a new charging station in the Santa Cruz Front Street parking garage where you can also charge up for free.

      More information on this car and public charging infrastructure is available on the RAV4 EV Web site (http://rav4ev.toyota.com) or the Electric Auto Association at (http://eaaev.org/). To learn about the rebate program, visit www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/zip/zip.htm.
      http://www.mnn.net/rav4ev.htm
      the last vet.before everyone got vetted
      Originally posted by MarshallArts
      Who's got you quoted in their sigs? Are they as equally worthy as those that have sigged me? I just can't imagine it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Bumping your own thread as usual

        The only thing I need to say is that electrical automobiles are a joke. They aren't clean energy. If you are charging your car at home then there is a good chance you are doing so with energy created at a coal plant. In the best case scenario, you are using nuclear energy... that is creating nuclear waste. Electric cars aren't the answer to our ecological problems. They might help some of the city smog.

        We need to make hybrid's a reality and a standard in the near future. Then we need to consider hydrogen. But is that logical? Does anyone remember the hindenburg?
        Last edited by TheWalrus; 04-26-2006, 10:35 AM.
        Warpox exposes himself | Editorial 1 4 | 2Pox

        Comment


        • #5
          My neighbor has solar collectors in his yard and on his house... he could run one of those cars on the sun that hits his property, thats pretty clean fuel right there. Ever heard of wind farms?
          the last vet.before everyone got vetted
          Originally posted by MarshallArts
          Who's got you quoted in their sigs? Are they as equally worthy as those that have sigged me? I just can't imagine it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Plus, NiMH battery technology has greatly advanced since the mid- '90s remember these were 1st generation cars and would have became better.
            the last vet.before everyone got vetted
            Originally posted by MarshallArts
            Who's got you quoted in their sigs? Are they as equally worthy as those that have sigged me? I just can't imagine it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by TheWalrus
              Bumping your own thread as usual
              I bumped one of you threads, where you were talking about how great of an success the Iraq war was, and how people in the UAE thought it was great for the Iraqis.
              the last vet.before everyone got vetted
              Originally posted by MarshallArts
              Who's got you quoted in their sigs? Are they as equally worthy as those that have sigged me? I just can't imagine it.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by reservoirGod
                My neighbor has solar collectors in his yard and on his house... he could run one of those cars on the sun that hits his property, thats pretty clean fuel right there. Ever heard of wind farms?
                Solar power isn't yet strong enough to power an automobile and a home. It would require a ton of panels and high conservation in the household.

                My neighbor got them put on his roof a few weeks ago and they actually cut down trees on the side of his home in the process.

                Wind farms are good but they take up space. You need to cut down a ton of trees as well. You can pretty much only put them in places where the wind is strong enough to create energy that is beneficial compared to the cost. Also, more then likely, they have to be put along shores or on farms in order for the benefits to outweigh the costs. Wind and solar are good supplements, not replacements.
                Warpox exposes himself | Editorial 1 4 | 2Pox

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by TheWalrus
                  Bumping your own thread as usual
                  The only thing I need to say is that electrical automobiles are a joke. They aren't clean energy. If you are charging your car at home then there is a good chance you are doing so with energy created at a coal plant. In the best case scenario, you are using nuclear energy... that is creating nuclear waste. Electric cars aren't the answer to our ecological problems. They might help some of the city smog.
                  We need to make hybrid's a reality and a standard in the near future. Then we need to consider hydrogen. But is that logical? Does anyone remember the hindenburg?
                  Bri, this is a void arguement and you know it. You comming from a state that is one of the largest benifactors of Hydro electricity and all right smart guy??? City smog is one of the largest issues facing global warming. I do not see how this would not be a suitable standard of automobile for the consumer market. It would cut emissions by a staggering amount. Electric is a perfectly sound way to go. Especially as power cells increase in power and capacity. Is it an answer to all the problems? No. But it's a huge step in the right direction. Anything that can release the need for foreign oil is a bonus as well. Nuclear, Hydro, Hydrogen even Solar and wind power if harnessed right can provide HUGE savings if the governments are willing to take a more intense action towards doing so.
                  The Solar Powered Myth
                  It is an often held misconception that solar power (and wind power) are:
                  #1. Too expensive.
                  #2. Won't provide enough power for large appliances.
                  #3. Won't work during the winter.
                  #4. Only provides power when it is sunny/windy.
                  #5. Too difficult to install.
                  #6. Only last 5 years.
                  #7. Unreliable.
                  #8. Useless at night.
                  #9. Inefficient.
                  #10. Not worth it/not profitable.
                  These ideas are all actually quite false.
                  Solar power and wind power is actually quite cheap. In Canada, the hardware store "Canadian Tire" sells solar panels that range in price from $80 to $300 (all prices Canadian), which includes a battery system for storing extra power during the evening (the battery system usually stores enough power for 2 to 3 days, depending on how much electricity you use).
                  The smaller units are ideal for cottages by the lake and can charge cell-phones, laptop batteries and even power a small microwave. Larger solar panels are used to provide ample supply for even large homes. Two to three large solar panels will cost a person roughly $500 to $1000 CDN and provide not only all their energy needs, but will feed surplus electricity back into the grid.
                  windmills are even cheaper and provide a similar level of energy. Some people even build their own, because the parts required for a windmill cost less than $15 CDN. Homemade windmills don't provide the same amount of energy as a windmill that you might buy, but the solution to this is easy: Either build more windmills, and/or have solar panels too.
                  The myth that solar panels don't work in the winter or a northern (Canadian) climate is completely false. The fact is that solar panels actually work even better during the winter, because of the huge temperature change. It doesn't even need to be sunny. Solar panels use the changes in temperature to provide electricity.
                  If you can climb onto your roof and nail a few nails, you can install solar panels, or hire someone else to install it for you.
                  Modern solar panels are heavy-duty, reliable and come with 25 (sometimes 30) year warranties.
                  The temperature changes at night, so solar panels still provide energy during the wee hours of the morning, combined with a battery system that hooks into your fuse box, it provides electricity at all times of the day and night.
                  Some people install both windmills and solar panels, wanting to have extra power, in case they ever need it. Or in the case of some people, to even make some extra money.
                  In Ontario, Canada, for example, the Ontario Hydro Corporation pays 6 cents per kW/hour. Now 6 cents doesn't seem like much right now, but your solar panels and/or windmills provide a lot more electricity than you think. Depending on how sunny/windy it is, you will likely have a tidy sum left over to brag about.
                  So they're not only worth it, they're profitable. They won't just save you money over long-term, they will also provide a small source of income.
                  In the event of a black-out or brown-out, your home will remain unaffected, with a battery supply and a constant supply of wind and/or solar power to keep the battery system full.
                  For years, people have been using solar/wind power in remote regions where there is no electricity grid. It would cost them $1000s of dollars just to have hydro poles built out to such remote spots.
                  Especially new home owners who have built a house farther away from the road/electricity grid. It would cost them anywhere from $3000 to $20,000 to have hydro poles extended down that long driveway to their home. These days, many new home owners are saving that money and instead investing $1000 (or more) in solar panels/windmills and a battery system that will provide more than enough electricity for their dream home.
                  With rising electrical costs, its the smart thing to do.
                  And in the case of some adventuresome young couples, the thing to do is to buy older cottages, fix them up, renovate them, add solar panels/etc, and then sell the place for a handsome profit.
                  In North America, roughly 60% of all of our electricity comes from coal-fired electrical plants. Another 20% comes from nuclear plants, and the final 20% is hydro-electric dams, solar panels and windmills. Due to the global coal shortage and the rising cost of coal, many places are now shutting down their coal plants. Thus, in the future, most of our electricity is going to have to come from nuclear power or renewable power sources such as solar, wind or hydro. This means electricity will become even more expensive in the future.
                  Canada used to be a leader in solar power technology, but during recent years Japan, China and the United States have become huge producers. Japan currently leads the group, by mass-producing cheap, efficient solar-panels on a massive scale. China is expected to pass Japan in the next few years however, and will start to flood the market with solar panels.
                  Indeed, they already are flooding the market.
                  Ten years ago, a solar panel system like the ones I mentioned above would have cost a person about $5000 to $10,000 to provide their home with an abundancy of electricity. These days a person can get the same deal with solar panels for less than $1000 CDN.
                  Now obviously this isn't going to help people who live in apartment buildings (many apartments have utilities included), but there is nothing to stop the apartment building's owner from setting up 10 to 20 solar-panels on the roof of the apartment building, and thus cutting down on their overall electricity bill.
                  Some farmers have switched crops. Instead of growing wheat or corn, they're installing solar panels and windmills on their barns or even whole fields, creating "wind farms" and "solar farms", cashing in on the 6 cents per kW/hour that Ontario Hydro pays.
                  In Ontario, the government is also currently considering a new law that will make all new homes and new buildings required to have solar panels on them. These solar panels could provide extra power to the electrical grid, emergency power for the owners, and decrease the electrity shortage.
                  During the next 15 years, the electricity shortage will get worse too. By 2020, the amount of electricity we use is expected to double (due to population growth, increased use of computers, electrical heaters, air-conditioners, etc).
                  Solar power is not a myth.
                  It is reality.
                  These areas need to be explored more by the general population. But the government needs to spark an interest and benifit in doing so. But as long as we elect oil mongers for presidents. Hybrids are NOT an aswer alone. They do very liitle to save the environment at all. They are a very small step in the right direction compared to what is available.
                  Last edited by gdillinjah; 04-26-2006, 01:20 PM.
                  One convienient location...... somewhere in Africa.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by gdillinjah
                    You comming from a state that is one of the largest benifactors of Hydro electricity and all right smart guy??? City smog is one of the largest issues facing global warming.


                    City smog doesn't affect global warming any more then the same amount of pollution spread out. City smog is local. If affects the health of people and the animals/forest/lakes in the general vicinity of the city. It creates an unhealthy enviroment on the ground, yes.

                    Originally posted by gdillinjah
                    I do not see how this would not be a suitable standard of automobile for the consumer market.
                    Assuming you could "charge your automobile" using renewable it IS a suitable possibility. I have said this. HOWEVER, right now, if you were to charge your car at home you would be using electricity powered from existing power plants, most of which use COAL - a much DIRTIER pollutant then oil! Your better bet would be nuclear stations powering your cars, but even then you have nuclear waste....

                    Originally posted by gdillinjah
                    Anything that can release the need for foreign oil is a bonus as well. Nuclear, Hydro, Hydrogen even Solar and wind power if harnessed right can provide HUGE savings if the governments are willing to take a more intense action towards doing so.
                    I have always maintained the position that a combination of all of these energy sources is best for the environment while we perfect renewable energies. Right now we cant power all of the millions of cars we have using sun rays or wind and oil is in fact, the only logical source of energy to power cars.

                    Originally posted by gdillinjah
                    But the government needs to spark an interest and benifit in doing so.
                    How about Bush providing billions of dollars to alternate energies, more then any president in our history and more then the entire world combined?

                    Originally posted by gillinjah
                    But as long as we elect oil mongers for presidents.
                    The same oil monger who earmarked billions to alternate energies, something you approve of, and the same president who agrees with something you say right here:

                    Originally posted by gdillinjah
                    Hybrids are NOT an aswer alone. They do very liitle to save the environment at all. They are a very small step in the right direction compared to what is available.
                    Hybrid's, which merely conserve oil, are NOT the answer, much like Kyoto isnt the answer to our problems.. because conserving this stuff isn't going to make us any less reliant on it.
                    Warpox exposes himself | Editorial 1 4 | 2Pox

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Very interesting. I myself am surprised I had not known how much solar had to offer. I knew about wind, but I think I've been misled by the myths saying how hard or impossible it is. I'll obviously have to research more.

                      In truth, when I look clearly at objections, the objections aren't that wind and solar cannot provide enough energy, but that they cannot provide enough energy IN ENOUGH TIME (to mitigate higher costs from rarer and rarer fossil fuels) and WITH THE PRESENT STATE OF TECHNOLOGY (ie - if we had sunk as many billions of dollars into wind and solar as we have oil mongering and war - usually at least related to oil mongering - for the last say 15, 20 years, we'd probably be very close to our goal now).

                      But as human blindness dictates, war before the spoils of war. Something almost un-capitalistic about securing energy without killing someone for it. We see through filters that make war always seem like a feasable solution, no matter how crazy it is as an alternative to other avenues. We're obviously too late, but it never had to be this way. If the defence of continuing is "we've already gone so far down the war path for energy, best not to try redirecting into renewable fuel sources, let's just finish these wars, we need it now, they'll take too long", then I say those are likely to become famous last words, or at least our undoing.

                      We should have, and still should look at developing these industries instead of genetically modified foods, depleted uranium bombs, pharmaceuticals for "disorders", and house of card schemes like Enron.

                      But that's just my take. Many would say continue with the bombs, viral foods and drugged up society. Nah, humanity is not crazy. We're making great logical strides towards utopia.

                      Peace
                      Would you let the system sit (shit) down on your head again? NO, DREAD, NO.
                      Would you let the system
                      make you kill your brother man? NO, DREAD, NO
                      .

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TheWalrus
                        Bumping your own thread as usual

                        The only thing I need to say is that electrical automobiles are a joke. They aren't clean energy. If you are charging your car at home then there is a good chance you are doing so with energy created at a coal plant. In the best case scenario, you are using nuclear energy... that is creating nuclear waste. Electric cars aren't the answer to our ecological problems. They might help some of the city smog.

                        We need to make hybrid's a reality and a standard in the near future. Then we need to consider hydrogen. But is that logical? Does anyone remember the hindenburg?
                        I don't know whether you get "Top Gear" in the States. It is a BBC programme about cars, hosted by car maniacs that test drive every vehicle on the market and are seldom impressed by anything other than the Porsche 911. Never-the-less, the test drove a Hybrid from one end of the UK to the other and it turned out that it used MORE fuel than ordinary fuel driven cars.

                        I don't know whether this applies to all Hybrids or just that particular one (can't remember which) but I thought it was interesting. Is it not possible that the whole Hybrid thing is just a marketing campaign aimed at people concerned with the environment?
                        "Nationalism is an infantile sickness. It is the measles of the human race."

                        -Albert Einstein

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Rainstorm
                          Very interesting. I myself am surprised I had not known how much solar had to offer. I knew about wind, but I think I've been misled by the myths saying how hard or impossible it is. I'll obviously have to research more.
                          Solar seems like a good route to go, I am not sure about wind though. Planting sufficient windmills to create the type of power currently produced by fossil fuels will ruin the countryside aestically. Also, apparantly in areas where windmills have been put up en masse, thousands of birds are killed by them. Doesn't seem like the best way to protect the environment.

                          At this point our best alternative is nuclear. Provided waste is stored securely I fail to see why this a bad idea.
                          "Nationalism is an infantile sickness. It is the measles of the human race."

                          -Albert Einstein

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Tricia
                            I don't know whether you get "Top Gear" in the States. It is a BBC programme about cars, hosted by car maniacs that test drive every vehicle on the market and are seldom impressed by anything other than the Porsche 911. Never-the-less, the test drove a Hybrid from one end of the UK to the other and it turned out that it used MORE fuel than ordinary fuel driven cars.

                            I don't know whether this applies to all Hybrids or just that particular one (can't remember which) but I thought it was interesting. Is it not possible that the whole Hybrid thing is just a marketing campaign aimed at people concerned with the environment?
                            That's because hybrid's are built for stop and go and/or township driving, not highway mileage. Hybrid's can never use more gas then a regular car built exactly the same way because it will either use its gas engine OR its gas & battery combo. If it's using gas, like most cars, then it should theoretically only burn what a regular gasoline car burns.

                            When you drive through backroads and stop, hybrid's harness that energy. If you are driving on the highway consistently, you wouldn't be stopping very much and thus you wont get the benefit of a hybrid.
                            Warpox exposes himself | Editorial 1 4 | 2Pox

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tricia
                              Solar seems like a good route to go, I am not sure about wind though.
                              In an ideal world, solar panels should be a requirement for homes. Especially in dense suburbs. Solar panels can provide more then enough energy for a typical American home AND they can actually feed energy back into the grid! If a small community town of, lets say 50,000, all had solar panels and all shared this energy amongst themselves in a grid.. they could theoretically power their homes and have some to spare for nearby cities.

                              Originally posted by Tricia
                              Planting sufficient windmills to create the type of power currently produced by fossil fuels will ruin the countryside aestically. Also, apparantly in areas where windmills have been put up en masse, thousands of birds are killed by them. Doesn't seem like the best way to protect the environment.
                              America added enough wind turbines in 2005 to power 650,000 homes. That's a shitload of renewable energy we have gotten out of windmills.

                              While they kill birds, it is estimated that most of our power stations (mostly coal i'm assuming) kill more birds because of the effect to the atmosphere, the water, and the surrounding habitats and forests.

                              We kill deer and squirrels with cars and fish and whales with boats, it seems only logical that we shouldnt pass up on wind energy because of birds. That's my opinion though!

                              However, for the 24 wind turbines (America's first "wind farm") going up in cape cod (lets hope this still happens.. there's debate), 360 birds are supposedly going to die from them a year. That doesn't seem like a lot of birds in cape cod considering it's a migration route and a heavily habitated area of the country, but I don't know how they came up with that figure.

                              Originally posted by tricia
                              At this point our best alternative is nuclear. Provided waste is stored securely I fail to see why this a bad idea.
                              I fear a nuclear accident. Cherynobl and three mile island could have been MUCH worse
                              Last edited by TheWalrus; 04-26-2006, 03:53 PM.
                              Warpox exposes himself | Editorial 1 4 | 2Pox

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