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  • America Freedom to Fascism

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...77175242198&q=

    I found this video interesting and honestly didn't know there was no law that said you had to pay income tax, I kind of feel stupid for not knowing that. But if you watch the video, your thoughts?

  • #2
    I showed freedom to fascism to people and they were pissed off after. They couldn't believe it. If this was showed on a major network there would be a major uproar.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by LiKWiD E View Post
      http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...77175242198&q=
      I found this video interesting and honestly didn't know there was no law that said you had to pay income tax, I kind of feel stupid for not knowing that. But if you watch the video, your thoughts?


      This video is so pathetic it's not even worth watching all of it.

      Instead of watching another stupid conspiracy video with scary music and believing it at face value, why don't you try disecting parts of it in order to verify factual evidence. Put a little work into your thought process. Fuck, it could only help you idiots who fall prey to this nonsense.

      If you don't believe the 16th amendment was ratified, check out the arguments and debunkings on wikipedia. Follow the arguments and acknowledge the fact that it was ratified and dozens of subsequent court rulings agree that everything was properly documented and ratified. Spelling "States" as "states" does not void an agreement. Just because spelling errors or punctuation marks differ doesn't mean the law congress formed and the states agreed to is void. It never has and never will.
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_pro...never_ratified

      Read it and if you don't agree with certain parts, let me know and I will spell it out for you in nine languages.

      The second stupid thing about this video is the idiotic reference to the central bank and how it's so "corrupt" and "powerful".

      The central bank essentially has one role: to balance the outflow of capital with the rise of inflation. One of the reasons why a central bank independent of a political system is needed is spelled out nicely right here:

      Central bank independence from political control is a crucial concept in both economic theory and practice. The problem arises as central banks strive to maintain a credible commitment to price stability, when the markets know that there is political pressure to keep interest rates low. Low interest rates tend to keep unemployment below trend, encourage economic growth, and allow for cheap credit and loans. Unfortunately, such a policy is not sustainable without accelerating inflation in the long term. Thus, a central bank believed to be under political control cannot make a credible commitment to fight inflation, as the markets know that sitting politicians will lobby to keep rates low. This point was one of the major research topics of economist Edward C. Prescott's career. It is in this limited sense that the Federal Reserve System is independent.
      The last dumb comment I read, and sorry for shutting this video off so soon (I have better things to do than listen to piss-poor information), was that the fed "loans money to the government who must pay it back in interest". The fed makes this much money off the government: $0. Zilch. It reimburses the government every penny of interest it makes.

      "The Federal Reserve rebates its net earnings to the Treasury every year. Consequently, the interest the Treasury pays to the Fed is returned, so the money borrowed from the Fed has no net interest obligation for the Treasury. The government could print its own currency independent of the Fed, but there would be no effective safeguards against abuse of this power for political gain."

      The FED is audited by public auditors, government auditors, internal auditors, and overseen by congress. The federal reserve is an independently operating bank that is essentially a part of the federal government but who's decisions are kept out of the dangers of politics. How you can ever call the USA fascist is beyond a practical thought process. Does anybody even know the fucking meaning of a fascist government anymore?
      Last edited by TheWalrus; 02-13-2007, 06:34 PM.
      Warpox exposes himself | Editorial 1 4 | 2Pox

      Comment


      • #4
        The income tax is not a permanent part of the American heritage; it was imposed during the Civil War, declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court, and then enshrined in the 16th Amendment in 1913. The income tax has become particularly beloved by the federal government because its rates can be adjusted to soak different groups, because with the withholding provision revenues can be extracted smoothly, and because it alone of all taxes imposes a fearsome and runaway Inquisition over all aspects of our lives, our incomes and our spending.

        The I.R.S. has virtually unlimited power to inspect, spy and snoop — to tell us how much we are forced to pay, and to require us to keep the records and fill out the forms to smooth the path for our own pockets to be picked. While all taxation is theft, no taxation permits such absolute despotism over us all as the income tax.

        The income tax, then, is the root of the malignant tree of Big Government. Lay the axe to that root, abolish the income tax, repeal the 16th Amendment, and the tree of tyranny will wither and die. America will take a great leap to reclaim the ideal of liberty, of ultra-minimal government, on which this country was founded.

        Murray N. Rothbard
        March, 1982

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by TheWalrus View Post


          This video is so pathetic it's not even worth watching all of it.

          Instead of watching another stupid conspiracy video with scary music and believing it at face value, why don't you try disecting parts of it in order to verify factual evidence. Put a little work into your thought process. Fuck, it could only help you idiots who fall prey to this nonsense.

          If you don't believe the 16th amendment was ratified, check out the arguments and debunkings on wikipedia. Follow the arguments and acknowledge the fact that it was ratified and dozens of subsequent court rulings agree that everything was properly documented and ratified. Spelling "States" as "states" does not void an agreement. Just because spelling errors or punctuation marks differ doesn't mean the law congress formed and the states agreed to is void. It never has and never will.
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_pro...never_ratified

          Read it and if you don't agree with certain parts, let me know and I will spell it out for you in nine languages.

          The second stupid thing about this video is the idiotic reference to the central bank and how it's so "corrupt" and "powerful".

          The central bank essentially has one role: to balance the outflow of capital with the rise of inflation. One of the reasons why a central bank independent of a political system is needed is spelled out nicely right here:



          The last dumb comment I read, and sorry for shutting this video off so soon (I have better things to do than listen to piss-poor information), was that the fed "loans money to the government who must pay it back in interest". The fed makes this much money off the government: $0. Zilch. It reimburses the government every penny of interest it makes.

          "The Federal Reserve rebates its net earnings to the Treasury every year. Consequently, the interest the Treasury pays to the Fed is returned, so the money borrowed from the Fed has no net interest obligation for the Treasury. The government could print its own currency independent of the Fed, but there would be no effective safeguards against abuse of this power for political gain."

          The FED is audited by public auditors, government auditors, internal auditors, and overseen by congress. The federal reserve is an independently operating bank that is essentially a part of the federal government but who's decisions are kept out of the dangers of politics. How you can ever call the USA fascist is beyond a practical thought process. Does anybody even know the fucking meaning of a fascist government anymore?

          I watched this movie yesterday, I don't know much about American economics or the IRS, but I must ask how you can debunk his statements where the head of IRS failed to in the documentary? You must also know ALOT more than the former IRS agents that were claiming there is no law and that it can't be proven

          In fact, judging from how you can single handedly debunk every single argument thrown at you, disregarding many facts on many occasions and comments made by experts in the field, we should just make you President of the world 3;-)3
          Nothing is true, everything is permitted

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ballisticz View Post
            I watched this movie yesterday, I don't know much about American economics or the IRS, but I must ask how you can debunk his statements where the head of IRS failed to in the documentary? You must also know ALOT more than the former IRS agents that were claiming there is no law and that it can't be proven
            Because (I) that isn't true. Pick any part of the video that you think is solid evidence that the bill wasn't passed and I will debunk it. Personally, decades of court cases from law interpreters and judges outweigh the opinion of "former IRS agents". For fuck sakes, the IRS is the laughing stock of the accounting world. Idiots from my college went there when they couldn't get into public or private accounting.

            Originally posted by ballisticz
            In fact, judging from how you can single handedly debunk every single argument thrown at you, disregarding many facts on many occasions and comments made by experts in the field, we should just make you President of the world 3;-)3
            What experts in the field? An IRS agent is an expert on a law passed in 1913, and judges aren't? Wow, more power to the boring drones in the IRA who work 9-4 and milk an easy government job. Seriously, you consider an IRS agent an "expert"? They studied accounting, not law. It's very simple. In our country, congress and the president make laws and judges interpret them and make sure they are constitutional. The 16th amendment has been in and out of court for decades because people hate paying taxes, and each time they are shut up and they lose their case.

            I know for a fact that you have never looked into this or studied it. So like these idiots, you saw a video that was professionaly done and you took it at face value. Your lack of understanding of how things work is astounding. Being an Australian, you probably think of the IRS as something it's not.

            The income tax is such an important part of government budgets that it would pass with biparrtisanship in both houses, signed by the president, and ratified again if given the chance. But it's not even an issue with intelligent people that only internet drones debate this. It's like the moon landing. Why does NASA need to waste time debunking shit maybe only 30,000 psychos believe when the evidence is so overwelming.
            Warpox exposes himself | Editorial 1 4 | 2Pox

            Comment


            • #7
              ^^ I never said I made a decision, I admitted I don't understand the American tax system.. It's just in all these threads with documentaries you seem to put yourself above everyone as some kind of universal expert on the world..

              There were cases in the video where judges let defendants go because there was no income tax law
              Nothing is true, everything is permitted

              Comment


              • #8
                I know for a fact that people have offered a lot of money to have people find a law and still nobody comes up with the law. $400,000 is still up for taking Walrus if you can prove that there is a law. Could have a quick house off of it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ballisticz View Post
                  ^^ I never said I made a decision, I admitted I don't understand the American tax system.. It's just in all these threads with documentaries you seem to put yourself above everyone as some kind of universal expert on the world..
                  I don't post in a thread unless I know what I am talking about. I have mixed up facts before, I make loads of typos, but I don't claim to be right unless I know I am. In this case, I am 100% right and will prove it to you. Find me what you believe in this video and i'll do the homework for you... since I am assuming like most people, you see what appears to be a "good point" and believe it at face value.

                  There were cases in the video where judges let defendants go because there was no income tax law
                  What are you talking about? Where in the video, and how do you know it's real? There is an income tax law... it's called the 16th amendment. Find the part in the video, or research the case and see if it makes sense instead of just believing it.
                  Warpox exposes himself | Editorial 1 4 | 2Pox

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by FowlMouf View Post
                    I know for a fact that people have offered a lot of money to have people find a law and still nobody comes up with the law. $400,000 is still up for taking Walrus if you can prove that there is a law. Could have a quick house off of it.
                    Sure. The 16th amendment.

                    Originally posted by 16th Amendment
                    The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.
                    Here's the signed declaration. Notice the president's signature as well as the speaker of the house of representatives signature.

                    The only debate is whether this law "counts" because (I) oh boy, there were punctuation differences and words were spelled soooo differently, i.e. "States" in congress' text was "states" in an individual state's text. omgwtfz, maybe it isn't real!

                    Where's my 400k?
                    Warpox exposes himself | Editorial 1 4 | 2Pox

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      i don't think the punctuation was the part that was contested. But if you can truly prove it contact Sherry Peel Jackson and she'll hook you up with the correct contact info to get the money.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by FowlMouf View Post
                        i don't think the punctuation was the part that was contested.
                        You should have stopped at "I don't think".

                        That is the main issue regarding the bill. People think since slightly differing texts were passed that the bill should be void. Even though no bills in our nations history have been treated like that. They have no argument at all. And you obviously don't even know what the fucking arguments are. That's why you're saying "you dont think" and not specifically saying how the 16th amendment isn't legit. So do me a favor: do some homework, research this for 5 minutes, and I promise you will be able to approach this discussion with more credibility.


                        Originally posted by Fowl
                        But if you can truly prove it contact Sherry Peel Jackson and she'll hook you up with the correct contact info to get the money.
                        She's a fucking moron. I read over something she posted. You be the judge:

                        Originally posted by Sherry Peel Jackson
                        If all Americans were able to keep the money withheld from their paychecks every year, that money would enable them to home school, start their own business and boost the economy, save for college and retirement, even buy that 40 acres and a mule.
                        This fucking idiot thinks paying no income taxes will make the country rich (ignoring supply and demand with inflation). Everyone will have their own business, their own home school, a retirement fund, 40 acres, and let's not forget the mule. So who pays for highways? Who pays for medicare? medicaid? Social security? War efforts, including those that are needed, i.e. world war two after japan attacked pearl harbor. Who pays for our national defense? Without income tax, the government cannot function. That is why it exists. That is why this country has grown to be a superpower with a high standard of living and that is why most modern states are following suit.

                        Since i'm a nice guy, here are some cliff notes to start your education with:

                        Early efforts to tax income

                        In order to help pay for its war effort in the American Civil War, the United States government imposed its first personal income tax, on August 5, 1861, as part of the Revenue Act of 1861 (3% of all incomes over US $800; rescinded in 1872). Other income taxes followed, although an 1895 United States Supreme Court ruling, Pollock v. Farmers' Loan & Trust Co., held that taxes on capital gains, dividends, interest, and rents were direct taxes on property, and therefore had to be apportioned. Since apportionment of income taxes is impractical, this had the effect of prohibiting a federal tax on income from property. Due to the political difficulties of taxing individual wages without taxing income from property, a federal income tax was impractical from the time of the Pollock decision until the time of ratification of the Sixteenth Amendment (below).

                        Passage of the Sixteenth Amendment

                        In response, Congress proposed the Sixteenth Amendment (ratified by the requisite number of states in 1913), which states:

                        The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

                        As the Supreme Court held in Brushaber v. Union Pacific Railroad, 240 U.S. 1 (1916), the amendment did not expand the federal government's existing taxing power but rather removed any requirement for apportionment of income taxes (meaning tax on profit or gain from any source) among the states on the basis of population (i.e., regardless of whether the tax was deemed direct or indirect).
                        Warpox exposes himself | Editorial 1 4 | 2Pox

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TheWalrus View Post
                          What are you talking about? Where in the video, and how do you know it's real? There is an income tax law... it's called the 16th amendment. Find the part in the video, or research the case and see if it makes sense instead of just believing it.
                          I don't understand your economics.. I'm not saying you are wrong or the video is right.. but just watch the whole thing.. He had the head of IRS baffled.. according to the video the 16th amendment doesn't support the income tax
                          Nothing is true, everything is permitted

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ballisticz View Post
                            I don't understand your economics.. I'm not saying you are wrong or the video is right.. but just watch the whole thing.. He had the head of IRS baffled..
                            I'll watch a part you think is accurate but I don't have 30 minutes to watse on nonsense. Being the head of the IRS means absolutely dick. The IRS collects and audits income. They don't make, interpret, identify, or update laws.

                            Originally posted by ballisticz
                            according to the video the 16th amendment doesn't support the income tax
                            How does it not? Let me show it to you:

                            Originally posted by 16th Amendment
                            The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.
                            Warpox exposes himself | Editorial 1 4 | 2Pox

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It was something about income not being defined, and that money derived from labour is personal property.. I can't argue something I don't know enough about, but I can't remember what part of the video it was in so I guess I'll take your word for it.. At any rate it doesn't effect me lol
                              Nothing is true, everything is permitted

                              Comment

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