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  • Faith

    My intentions aren't to start a huge religious debate, I would simply like to hear some personal stories on your beliefs and reasons as to why you think this way. Any input into this thread would be awesome though

    Being spoon-fed religion at an early age in school like most people in my region, I classed myself a Christian. This is ironic in a way because from about the age of 14, I was so high on drugs, getting drunk every week and trying to fuck any girl that would have me that I was anything but a Christian. My father was a Catholic but not a strong religious man, and neither was my mother who was also a Christian. If somebody asked what my beliefs were I would say without thinking "I'm a Christian", because I didn't know of any other way. Once I hit 17, I thought I was being cool and rebellious, and I went through that stage where you read stuff on the internet and think you're the smartest person in the world. I became an atheist, refusing to even acknowledge any counter-evidence given by anyone and was stuck in my own little world. Over the last year, I started to class myself as an agnostic, until a few months back when I had a life-changing experience where I found myself crying, gripping a cross I wore around my neck, which changed my whole view on life.

    Now, it's not like I had some stupid rebirth where I'm instantly going to spout off how I have 'found God'. But what I did find is that when I was at my lowest point, it was that cross that I gripped that made me think about my family and my friends and it caused me to see life in a completely different way. I can say with one hundred percent certainty that I'm not a Christian. The reason I can say this is because I do not believe what they believe. However, what I do believe is that that specific symbol (the cross on my chain) affected me in such a huge way that I literally can't find the words to explain it. What I went through on that day possibly made it the worst day of my life, however, gripping that cross, my mind went through some huge changes and in the morning, everything was clear to me.

    What I do believe is that each and every thing that exists on this planet has a purpose. I believe that every single living thing has it's own thoughts and perceptions, and this is what 'God', if you want to call it that, is. God is infinity. This is expressed by producing every single possibility there is. Every human, animal, plant, every living thing simply represents one possibility that there is. There is no right, there is no wrong, there only is. The universe cannot end because there is no end to the infinite possibilities that could exist. This is the beauty of it. I believe that when you die, you are kind of absorbed into this invisible energy. When people say they can't imagine what it is like to die, I picture what it was like before birth. It's not like I was in the womb thinking "this is taking a long time!", I just wasn't able to comprehend it. That's what I think it's like when you die. Time just ceases to exist. I think the concepts of heaven and hell are extremely judgemental as it seems to paint the picture that there is a defined right and wrong. There is no right and wrong, there just is.

    While some people would counter this by asking the question 'If there's no right and wrong, why not just be a douchebag for the rest of your life and live selfishly', I say that if it makes you happy, do it. Since the incident I mentioned above, I have gotten myself involved in voluntary work and am still contemplating a career in social care. Am I doing this in hopes that it's considered a good action it'll get me into a possible heaven? No, I'm doing this because I feel it will benefit people's lives and make them happy. Do I still take the odd drug and occasionally go on a drinking binge? Fuck yeah Once every couple a months, I may get offered a line of coke, I'll take it and I'll have a normal, great night. If someone goes to pass me a joint, will I say "oh fuck that, the Lord frowns upon...." NO. The only thing I hate is that all my life people have been trying to tell me what I should believe in. Well what I say is live life the way you want to and you'll be HAPPY. Because that's what it's all about, being happy. I used to be such a cunt, trying to tell people that they were wrong if they said they believed in Christianity or [ENTER RELIGION HERE]. But now that I've stopped thinking about what's right and started thinking about living, I'm finally happy.

    Yeah, this is a really long post =|





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  • #2
    When I feel low I have a whale tooth necklace I wear and grip, not trying to rag on your story or belief but comfort can be found in anything, whether it's a bottle, a pill, a cross or a stuffed teddy. Everything else you said was wise though, look up Eckhart Tolle his books are on a similiar wavelength. Good post.
    Nothing is true, everything is permitted

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    • #3
      Like ballisticz said, very good post and a good read.

      I don't really know how my faith could be defined, but if asked I would say Christian, not that it's the right or wrong faith, I just don't know.

      I'm a highly spiritual person and believe there is a higher power and something beyond us but this is based 100% on personal experiences (and I really ignore science in this leap of faith, but I believe it's the right leap). The reason I call myself a Christian is because I'm still clinging to the faith I was raised up on, but there are some things about the religion that I simply don't agree with for instance: a truly good person who hasn't accepted Jesus Christ will go to hell and burn for an eternity (imagine burning for a fucking eternity), and an asshole who treats everybody like shit but accepts Jesus goes to Heaven and gets whatever he wants. It's just not right, not even the most evil person on Earth deserves hell.

      I've had similar experiences as you by holding a cross but I also talk to Jesus whenever I do this. And whenever I do this and I'm going through bad things and put all of the troubles onto God and let him have them, things always seem to work out for me. So by praying to Jesus this is probably why I keep my Christian faith and I also think for the most part that the religion is a good way to live my life even though I drink a shitload of alcohol and many other sinful things. I still try not to sin. I even still repent to Jesus and thank God for everything, and throw a few requests in there each night just out of habit.

      So yeah my religious views are all screwed up. I've thoroughly considered just about every option for what happens after your body dies, and honestly Chris' views make the most sense if you're looking at things from the scientific perspective of the very limited 'reality tunnel' that our human minds can comprehend which I'll explain in a second. But I still truly and fully believe that we will all go to another plane of existence when our Earthly body dies. Maybe I just can't accept the possibility of everything ending, but thats just what I believe.

      As far as the ideas of reality tunnels go. I first heard the term from Robert Anton Wilson and built on what I heard, if you want to go look him up on YouTube it is incredibly interesting stuff and I'm not using 'incredibly' lightly. When you take a drug such as LSD or shrooms it puts you in a whole different world and what you see IS the truth when you are looking at the world through that reality tunnel. Who is to say that the sober mind is the correct, truthful reality tunnel and who is it to say that the things you see on acid aren't real? It takes you to another plane of existence and what you see, in my opinion, is the truth, but only the truth when you are looking through that tunnel. If everyone saw the world through the tunnel that marijuana brings about, the tunnel that we see as sober mind would seem very weird. It is the same idea as what quantam physics is about, where an electron TRULY is all depends on what instrument (or reality tunnel) is measuring it and just because a certain instrument says it is in one place, doesn't mean all of the other instruments are wrong.

      So how does this tie in with an afterlife? For you to accept what I'm going to say all depends on if you believe the existence of a soul to be possible. So the human mind truly limits what we can see as the truth. Taking drugs such as LSD takes us to different planes of existence, but the places that we can be taken with even the hardest drug is still limited by the human mind. Once our soul ditches the body and the mind we can be taken to the 'spirit world' which most people see as Heaven and is completely undescribable by a human mind, and it could potentially be an incredible place. Sorry if this isn't making complete sense, this is incredibly difficult to explain in words. What I'm trying to say is the idea of an afterlife is not far fetched because science is not the ULTIMATE truth, only the truth that we can see from a sober mind. And once I establish for myself that science does not limit the possibiliy of the afterlife, and then combine it with my personal experiences, it all makes sense.

      I just reread this, and son of a bitch do I sound like one crazy high motherfucker. Don't judge me lol.
      Last edited by Baydestrian; 04-05-2010, 01:43 AM.
      I'm known to have a hottie open, I keep the shottie smokin
      Front and get half the bones in your body broken

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      • #4
        I'm sort of in-between.

        I was taken to church as a child, and most of my family on my fathers side were christian, and highly religious. The family members on my moms side of the family were not religious at all. Growing up, My mom never talked about religion with me, but my father always talked about the spiritual, mental, and physical forms of ourselves. Physical - body, mental - mind, spiritual - soul. He always talked about himself being on the spiritual level, as in not worrying about things such as past catching up to him (He was highly into drugs and was in and out of jail), he was chill. Now he is 46 with some medical conditions.. still will never question his faith and is chill. My mother doesn't know what to believe. My Grandfather told me I should be christian, and that Christianity is not a fairytale.

        I am spiritual, I had a dream about my grandmother right after she died. Saying she would always love me and be with me. I was 9 when she died, and didn't really understand the concept of "Death" at all. I want to see a ghost, but have yet to see one. As far as god goes.. I am not sure. WW1, WW2, Haiti, Sir Lanka, The Holocaust.. I'm not blaming it on god, but the amount of human life lost during those events.. Was all of this in God's plan? Was there room for some divine intervention?

        I really do hope we are here for a purpose.

        However, I am one fucked up individual, and I don't think random chance was ready if it indeed created me. I am too fucked up mentally for it to be random.

        Goodnight

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ballisticz View Post
          When I feel low I have a whale tooth necklace I wear and grip, not trying to rag on your story or belief but comfort can be found in anything, whether it's a bottle, a pill, a cross or a stuffed teddy. Everything else you said was wise though, look up Eckhart Tolle his books are on a similiar wavelength. Good post.
          I think the reason the cross meant so much to me is because of who I got it from and how long I've had it. I completely agree that comfort can be found in pretty much anything and the only reason I had this change in attitude is because it was that particular object. It humbled me. As I say, it's not like I became some religious nut after the incident, but I feel it helped change me from being a close-minded bigot to someone who is able to appreciate what other people believe in and not dismiss their beliefs simply because they contradict my own.

          Thanks for the tip. I've been after some reading material so I'll be sure to check some of them out

          Originally posted by Baydestrian View Post
          Like ballisticz said, very good post and a good read.
          I don't really know how my faith could be defined, but if asked I would say Christian, not that it's the right or wrong faith, I just don't know.
          I'm a highly spiritual person and believe there is a higher power and something beyond us but this is based 100% on personal experiences (and I really ignore science in this leap of faith, but I believe it's the right leap). The reason I call myself a Christian is because I'm still clinging to the faith I was raised up on, but there are some things about the religion that I simply don't agree with for instance: a truly good person who hasn't accepted Jesus Christ will go to hell and burn for an eternity (imagine burning for a fucking eternity), and an asshole who treats everybody like shit but accepts Jesus goes to Heaven and gets whatever he wants. It's just not right, not even the most evil person on Earth deserves hell.
          I've had similar experiences as you by holding a cross but I also talk to Jesus whenever I do this. And whenever I do this and I'm going through bad things and put all of the troubles onto God and let him have them, things always seem to work out for me. So by praying to Jesus this is probably why I keep my Christian faith and I also think for the most part that the religion is a good way to live my life even though I drink a shitload of alcohol and many other sinful things. I still try not to sin. I even still repent to Jesus and thank God for everything, and throw a few requests in there each night just out of habit.
          So yeah my religious views are all screwed up. I've thoroughly considered just about every option for what happens after your body dies, and honestly Chris' views make the most sense if you're looking at things from the scientific perspective of the very limited 'reality tunnel' that our human minds can comprehend which I'll explain in a second. But I still truly and fully believe that we will all go to another plane of existence when our Earthly body dies. Maybe I just can't accept the possibility of everything ending, but thats just what I believe.
          As far as the ideas of reality tunnels go. I first heard the term from Robert Anton Wilson and built on what I heard, if you want to go look him up on YouTube it is incredibly interesting stuff and I'm not using 'incredibly' lightly. When you take a drug such as LSD or shrooms it puts you in a whole different world and what you see IS the truth when you are looking at the world through that reality tunnel. Who is to say that the sober mind is the correct, truthful reality tunnel and who is it to say that the things you see on acid aren't real? It takes you to another plane of existence and what you see, in my opinion, is the truth, but only the truth when you are looking through that tunnel. If everyone saw the world through the tunnel that marijuana brings about, the tunnel that we see as sober mind would seem very weird. It is the same idea as what quantam physics is about, where an electron TRULY is all depends on what instrument (or reality tunnel) is measuring it and just because a certain instrument says it is in one place, doesn't mean all of the other instruments are wrong.
          So how does this tie in with an afterlife? For you to accept what I'm going to say all depends on if you believe the existence of a soul to be possible. So the human mind truly limits what we can see as the truth. Taking drugs such as LSD takes us to different planes of existence, but the places that we can be taken with even the hardest drug is still limited by the human mind. Once our soul ditches the body and the mind we can be taken to the 'spirit world' which most people see as Heaven and is completely undescribable by a human mind, and it could potentially be an incredible place. Sorry if this isn't making complete sense, this is incredibly difficult to explain in words. What I'm trying to say is the idea of an afterlife is not far fetched because science is not the ULTIMATE truth, only the truth that we can see from a sober mind. And once I establish for myself that science does not limit the possibiliy of the afterlife, and then combine it with my personal experiences, it all makes sense.
          I just reread this, and son of a bitch do I sound like one crazy high motherfucker. Don't judge me lol.
          Haha, awesome post and I will definitely check out those vids. I agree with you on the drugs thing. Experiences like that definitely alter you as a human being.

          Originally posted by Street_Revolva View Post
          I'm sort of in-between.

          I was taken to church as a child, and most of my family on my fathers side were christian, and highly religious. The family members on my moms side of the family were not religious at all. Growing up, My mom never talked about religion with me, but my father always talked about the spiritual, mental, and physical forms of ourselves. Physical - body, mental - mind, spiritual - soul. He always talked about himself being on the spiritual level, as in not worrying about things such as past catching up to him (He was highly into drugs and was in and out of jail), he was chill. Now he is 46 with some medical conditions.. still will never question his faith and is chill. My mother doesn't know what to believe. My Grandfather told me I should be christian, and that Christianity is not a fairytale.

          I am spiritual, I had a dream about my grandmother right after she died. Saying she would always love me and be with me. I was 9 when she died, and didn't really understand the concept of "Death" at all. I want to see a ghost, but have yet to see one. As far as god goes.. I am not sure. WW1, WW2, Haiti, Sir Lanka, The Holocaust.. I'm not blaming it on god, but the amount of human life lost during those events.. Was all of this in God's plan? Was there room for some divine intervention?

          I really do hope we are here for a purpose.

          However, I am one fucked up individual, and I don't think random chance was ready if it indeed created me. I am too fucked up mentally for it to be random.

          Goodnight
          Interesting thoughts and I'd like to go into that dream you talked about. Have any of you had a dream that was pretty unexplainable in relation to a dying relative? When I was a child, I would have the occasional dream where I would see dead or dying relatives and they would give me a message of sorts. An example would be seeing my Uncle and him saying something along the lines of "ask your mother about the 23 in Ryhope" and when I'd tell this to my mother, she would tell me a story that was precisely centred around that event, but which I could not have had any knowledge of. Do you think this could be a sign of another plane of existence? Or simply explained by me perhaps hearing the story as a child and storing it in my subconscious, just waiting to be released?





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          • #6

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            • #7
              Great thread m8's

              anyone hear voices in their heads ever that they can't explain? sometimes i'll just have random thoughts, usually when im falling asleep that like idk it's hard to explain but I know they aren't my thoughts....nvm im insane ill leave

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              • #8
                Originally posted by WPG View Post
                /close thread





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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Chris View Post
                  Interesting thoughts and I'd like to go into that dream you talked about. Have any of you had a dream that was pretty unexplainable in relation to a dying relative? When I was a child, I would have the occasional dream where I would see dead or dying relatives and they would give me a message of sorts. An example would be seeing my Uncle and him saying something along the lines of "ask your mother about the 23 in Ryhope" and when I'd tell this to my mother, she would tell me a story that was precisely centred around that event, but which I could not have had any knowledge of. Do you think this could be a sign of another plane of existence? Or simply explained by me perhaps hearing the story as a child and storing it in my subconscious, just waiting to be released?
                  Well the dream about my grandma when she died was pretty unexplainable, I woke up saying i had a dream about my grandma, when all I had seen was a bright light butterflied shaped thing at the edge of her hallway in her old house. It didn't sound like her though, but I woke up saying it was her. I haven't had any other dreams.. Although, I have been tapped awake by someone, and woke up to find no one tapping me. I beleive it is a sign of another plane of existence. Athiests/non-beleivers can say what they want about "Delusions, chemical imbalances, false hope" etc, they can try to explain what happens in order to have these dreams/visions, but they can't explain WHY. There must be a reason.

                  Ever heard of the Programmed universe theory?

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                  • #10
                    I've had a few unexaplainable events of what I guess you could call precognition, nothing on a major wow factor but I once dreamt of a plane crash the night before a major one occured and a couple little things like knowing what someone is going to say 10 minutes before they come say it. I don't overly believe in psychics but I suppose if human consciousness all shares a grid in some way then it is possible to experience peoples intentions before they occur, I dunno.
                    Nothing is true, everything is permitted

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                    • #11
                      Since we're on the topic of shit we can't explain, I will divulge.

                      A few nights ago I tried to fall asleep in my bed. It was one of those nights where you know you have to get up early, but you're not tired enough to just fall asleep so all you can do is linger there. I've been in this situation a lot, but one of the things that bothers me about it is how sleep has to catch you off guard. It's impossible to sleep when you're focusing on nothing but the thought of you submitting to your sleep. However, I have once fallen into a sleep where I was completely conscious of my dream state the entire night and I remembered everything I dreamed about. While the dreams were happening I could comment on them in the back of my mind by observing them because I knew that they weren't real.

                      I also have mood swings that enlighten me on the importance of existence how we know it. Most of the time, we are like fish in a little fish bowl, aware only of our bowl (Earth) and go about our daily business, with no idea what's out there. I'd say my swings of unhappiness are not because I know too little, but because I think too much. I'll stare into someone's eyes (this typically happens with girls... something about their insecurity that triggers it) when I'm talking to them and can't help but laugh or disregard everything they're saying or whatever is happening around me completely. Maybe I'm just an asshole to people, but I cannot ignore the futility of some people when I talk to them. I'm not always like this, this actually affects me pretty rarely.

                      I hate being like this sometimes, it just makes me sad. I've talked with other people about this feeling, and have gotten feedback similar to how I feel. I hope I'm not the only one around here that breaks things down too much.
                      Originally posted by iSquidgey
                      but if theyre hot they automatically make good music

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BrianPeppers View Post
                        Since we're on the topic of shit we can't explain, I will divulge.

                        A few nights ago I tried to fall asleep in my bed. It was one of those nights where you know you have to get up early, but you're not tired enough to just fall asleep so all you can do is linger there. I've been in this situation a lot, but one of the things that bothers me about it is how sleep has to catch you off guard. It's impossible to sleep when you're focusing on nothing but the thought of you submitting to your sleep. However, I have once fallen into a sleep where I was completely conscious of my dream state the entire night and I remembered everything I dreamed about. While the dreams were happening I could comment on them in the back of my mind by observing them because I knew that they weren't real.

                        I also have mood swings that enlighten me on the importance of existence how we know it. Most of the time, we are like fish in a little fish bowl, aware only of our bowl (Earth) and go about our daily business, with no idea what's out there. I'd say my swings of unhappiness are not because I know too little, but because I think too much. I'll stare into someone's eyes (this typically happens with girls... something about their insecurity that triggers it) when I'm talking to them and can't help but laugh or disregard everything they're saying or whatever is happening around me completely. Maybe I'm just an asshole to people, but I cannot ignore the futility of some people when I talk to them. I'm not always like this, this actually affects me pretty rarely.

                        I hate being like this sometimes, it just makes me sad. I've talked with other people about this feeling, and have gotten feedback similar to how I feel. I hope I'm not the only one around here that breaks things down too much.
                        I feel the same way alot, especially with girls who are trying to convince themself of their importance while telling you about something. It's like they don't even communicate to actually communicate, but only to inflate their own ego and hide from their insecurity. You are right though, the fish bowl analogy is a good one... I certainly don't think humanity on the whole is self aware, maybe like 5% think about what is beyond the fish bowl.

                        I really struggle at my part time job, because I become so bored and built into routine that my brain can't help but wander off and start analysing everything. It's a gift in the sense that people like us can't be manipulated or bullshitted to, we will see right through it, but it's also a curse when you cannot simply just conduct a mundane task without losing yourself to your thoughts.
                        Nothing is true, everything is permitted

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